Justin is CEO of the PR firm BrEpic Communications and author of the No. 1 International Best-Selling Book, Epic Business. Justin is hard-wired to seek out and create viral, thought-provoking stories that the media craves.

 

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Hey, welcome back to another episode of The Art of Making Thing Happen with me, your host Steve Sims. I have Justin Breen that’s going to be on our show today. This guy openly calls himself a whackadoo visionary, and he is. He’s an oddball, which is why we love him. He’s colorful, he’s charismatic, and he’s been a journalist for over 20 years. He’s going to actually let you know what’s really going on out there in the world of PR, and how you can utilize it. Not abuse it, utilize it, and benefit from it. If you think PR is just getting your name in a newspaper, he talks to you about the platforms you really need to be focusing on. And guess what? Most of them are free. If you’re looking to grow your brand, your economy, your business, your reputation, your credibility, listen to Justin. Sharp, sharp dude from Chicago, I’m going to welcome him to the show.

Hey Justin, welcome to the show.

What’s up, Steve?

Now, there’s a lot of people that don’t know you. But, before they get to know you I’ve got to tell them, quite simply, how you’re one of the coolest cats I know. You’re a weird freak, and you’ll acknowledge that, and that’s what I love in my wheelhouse and sandpit. But, this is the second conversation we’ve had this week, the first one had gold, I loved it, enjoyed it. Got off, listened to the recording, and the audio was shit. So, I was so thrilled that I was able to contact you back and go, “Look, your content was too gold, too giving, too helpful, too impactful for us not to be able to do it again,” and you agreed. So I’ve got to say, Justin, massive, great thanks for coming back on the show.

Steve, I’m happy to do it, hopefully it doesn’t sound like shit this time.

Nah, I think we should be good. We’re obviously in a garden so we’re aware of all those kind of things, but we’re cool.

Let’s jump into the deep end. You are a very well established journalist, very qualified. You’re not some afternoon blogger that just throws something up there, you’ve got a lot of Ivy League behind you. But, you openly say that journalists piss you off, and the world of media pisses you off. Why?

Yeah. In terms of how I started my firm, I was a journalist for 20 years, and created my entire business model based on how PR firms annoyed me for 20 years. I actually like most journalists, most journalists are weird, oddly wired like I am. You have to be quirky and different to be a journalist, because its weird hours, and it’s not the best pay, and you’re getting yelled at all the time, or laughed at by people. There’s not a lot of respect or whatever, so it’s a difficult job to go into.

What I will say is that I’ve always been an outlier, whether it’s within traditional media, because I always did stories that other folks weren’t doing. And then now, I’m definitely an outlier in terms of an entrepreneur, in terms of pivoting and running a successful business, and investing heavily now. Unlike most entrepreneurs’ companies, that are scaling back, and looking at things as a cost as opposed to an investment. I’ve always been that outlier. How did you describe me when we first started this? Kind of a freaky dude, but in this case it’s paid off big time because I’ve found that most successful people in the world are all a little bit off, in some way.

You run, founded one of the largest PR firms in Chicago, is that correct?

I’d like to think that. In terms of my global connectivity and the people in my network, then the answer to that is yes. But no, when I first started my business, one of my clients was giant PR firm. So I was doing PR for a giant PR firm, because the giant PR firm didn’t know how to do PR. I based my entire … People at your level always laugh at that. People that just don’t get it, they just stare at me like, “What are you talking about?” But, you appreciate the joke in there, for sure.

Yeah, my company isn’t the traditional employee, office, size, headcount kind of thing. It’s more of a giant incubator of geniuses around the world, and we’re just constantly introducing each other for mutual gain. And the byproduct is I’m constantly getting intros to companies around the world that want to hire my firm. It is one of the largest PR firms, if you look at it in that way for sure, because the network just keeps growing, and growing, and growing on a global level.

It's more of a giant incubator of geniuses around the world, and we're just constantly introducing each other for mutual gain. Click To Tweet

Let’s break it down to PR, let’s actually focus on PR. Everyone in the old days, PR to them represented them getting a wonderful article in a major magazine. What is PR today?

I can answer from my perspective, because I never understood what PR firms do other than annoy journalists. I never understood it. What PR, for my firm, is creating newsworthy stories and then pitching them to media, locally, regionally, and internationally, and nationally as well. How I’ve seen media change, in terms of the PR media relationship is that podcasts like these are if not as popular or more important than being in Forbes, or Wall Street Journal, that they’re heading in that direction. Because the visionary whackadoos in my network in the tens of thousands, they listen to these podcasts, they’re not necessarily reading Wall Street Journal or the New York Times anymore. I mean, a lot of that’s just an ego boost.

So being on these podcasts is super important, because you can do a deep dive on somebody, sometimes multiple deep dives on the same subject, and you really get to know them. And then, the people listening to them are usually, especially podcasts like this, people like us because they want to hear and listen to people like us, and they want to get to know hosts that are like us as well. That’s my tribe, and I think that’s where media’s heading is more podcasts like these.

Well, it’s also multi-dimensional, we spoke about it before. I had an article in Forbes, it was an eight page article, very glamorous, very brilliant. Everyone’s always impressed when they found out I had such a large article in Forbes. The bottom line of it is no one ever read it. You know, they’d read the link that I would send them, but then I would always follow up and go, “Oh, do you read Forbes?” And they go, “No.” So Forbes carried the kudos, the “hey, you’re in Forbes,” but there was only one level, someone talking about you. When you’re on a podcast like this, they’ve got the enthusiasm, they’ve got the tonality, they’ve got your quirkiness. It’s so multi-dimensional to do a podcast over an article. But, why do you think people are still hung up? Because I swear, if you turned around and go, “Hey, you could do my podcast, you could do Jordan Harbinger, you could do Joe Rogan, you could do Tim Ferris. Or, I can get you an article in the Wall Street Journal.” You know more people would want to go in the Wall Street Journal, and I can’t understand why. What is the hangup, still? Or, the attraction to print media that no one reads.

Ego, and just that’s how it’s always been. I mean, why are so many entrepreneurs so focused on revenue, when you can have a $5 million revenue company that’s negative profit? It’s just looking at things differently.

The most successful entrepreneurs right now, and people in the world in general, are the ones leveraging this opportunity, and pivoting, and investing like crazy. Not only to dominate now, but three to five years from now. People that are stuck in the sand, and doing the same thing, and clinging onto things, those are the ones that are hanging on for dear life now. And then, three to five years from now, who knows what they’re going to be?

The most successful entrepreneurs right now, and people in the world in general, are the ones leveraging this opportunity, and pivoting, and investing like crazy. Click To Tweet

It’s about being able to pivot, and adapt to how things are. I’ll give you a perfect example. I did a radio interview about a year and a half ago, on WGN Radio. They asked me, “What do you think about virtual networking?” I go, “What are you even talking about? I’ve never done that in my life, I would never do that. I only meet people in person.” So now, it’s 100% virtual networking. When you’re wrong, you just change your brain, it’s very simple. People that have a problem admitting they’re wrong or changing are the ones that let their ego get in the way of things.

Now, his only parameters … I’ve had this conversation with Jordan Harbinger, who was from The Art of Charm, then did The Jordan Harbinger Show, very, very successful. I’d go out on a limb and say one of the best podcasters out there, and definitely the best podcast.

 I was on his show, loved it, love him, good lad, good friend. I remember, as I was getting into the podcast world and started to do more media in it, he said to me, “You’re going to want to be careful about what podcasts you go on.” I remember this, because it made me giggle. He sent me, it was either three or four page, beautifully designed PDF, on the attributes you should look at before accepting to go on someone’s podcast. It was the demographic, it was the download, it was the after market alerts, and marketing, and spread, what dollars they were putting in to exposing your … It was all of those things.

I remember when I got that, I sent him back my parameters, which were A, they have to have a podcast, and B, they need to be alive at the time of interviewing me on the podcast. It was a joke, but when I say I’m a podcast slut it’s an understatement. Why are people ignoring what is quite openly a free media?

Ignorance, man. I feel the exact same way about you and podcasts. All of these interviews, no matter if they have a million followers or three, it’s a good link to create validity and credibility. Some of the biggest offers I’ve ever had, and contracts my company’s ever had, from things I never would have expected it from. I did a podcast, I don’t want to name the name, but it was maybe a couple 100 listeners. One of the people on there, I knew right away he was a visionary, and he and I are in talks for some major, serious six-figure type contract work.

I would actually expand on that. I’ve done some of the biggest podcasts out there, and they haven’t moved the needle on signups, registration. I’m not saying, “Book sales,” or anything like that. But, you can say your website, and then you can monitor within 48 hrs, was there an uptick, and I’ve had very little uptick on the biggest ones. But the good thing, I’m just warning you guys out there, the good things about small podcasts is their crowds seem to be more loyal because they feels as though they have an intimate relationship. So when you’ve got two million people subscribed, and the podcaster goes, “Hey, you should buy this book,” you’re one of two million, you’re one of a crowd. But, when you’ve got 200 or 300 subscribers and they go, “Hey, you should read …” All of a sudden, you see a major uptick, so do not discount the size.

And also, one other bit, is that you may do a podcast and you may be number 10 on it, and it may be getting 10 uploads. But then, you all of a sudden get to a Presidential candidate as an interview, or he gets someone cool and weird, like Justin Breen, and all of a sudden, everyone subscribes. And when you subscribe to someone’s podcast, you get all of the old podcasts. I’ve been on podcasts with low, and then they’ve got someone that’s been really cool or topical, and all of a sudden people are contacting me because they heard my podcast that I did five years ago.

Yeah.

It’s uncanny.

Let’s talk about the media bloggers, at the moment. There’s a lot of people … We had Huffington Post, they’ve pulled back on it. Let’s be honest, everyone was on Huffington Post at the time. But even Forbes, Entrepreneur, all of these major publications are using a [inaudible 00:12:18] editors now, aren’t they? Or, writers to post articles online.

Yeah.

I don’t want to be rude, because I enjoy obviously getting the publicity out of these, so I don’t want to come out and shoot the golden goose. But, are we losing the validity and credibility of how pompous it was at the time to be in Forbes, or Robb Report, or any of those?

Yes.

Well, that was easy. I love that. I love your answers.

I’m going to ask the question, for the most impactful question. If there is someone out there … There’s two parts to this question. If there’s somebody out there and they’re in business, otherwise you wouldn’t be listening to this, and they want PR, the first question is, what is the best platform that they should be focusing on?

If they have no PR or media experience?

None.

Podcasts, and I’m going to tell you why.

Good.

Because podcasts, many of the times, have a small audience so if you have trouble speaking or identifying your message, you can test it out. Two, you’re able to take a deep dive with somebody so you can really get to know them. And three, as we said before, you never know what those podcasts will lead to because the people listening to them are the ones actually making a huge difference in society right now, as opposed to the [inaudible 00:13:50] people who are not reading Forbes, written by people who are paying to write for Forbes and be called so-called Forbes experts.

Okay. Good, we’ve upset people. I like it when we do that.

A couple of things that you said, and you repeated it in a few conversations that we’ve had, you brought up the word storytelling. You’ve openly said you’re not writing an article, you’re not getting someone PR, you’re spreading their story, it’s all about the storytelling. Why is storytelling so important?

Because we’re a society of storytellers, we’re a society of stories. When I say we, I mean the world. People like good stories.

As a journalist, I spent 20 years writing the stories that you would typically see at the end of newscasts, something positive and inspirational. For the most part, people don’t care about what you do, they care about who you are. But, if they care about who you are, they will care about what you do. So people always want to have uplifting, interesting stories, they want to feel good. I know there’s a lot of negativity in the media right now, but from my firm, we only produce positive, game changing, global changing, at least national changing stories, on cool businesses and brands. But, we’re a connecting society, we want to connect with people on more than a transactional level. We really want to get to know people, for who they really are.

But, what about today? Is that all well and good when we’re in a normal world, but hey, today, no one’s going to pay attention to my article because everyone wants to know about how many people are dying, or how many people are now infected with COVID? Surely, now is the wrong time for me to be trying get any press out there.

I don’t know if you’re deliberately trying to bait me with that … maybe you were.

Is it too obvious?

Yeah. Again, I know this is not how you think, but that’s how, based on my evidence with talking with some of the best people in the world, pretty much all the time, every day, 95%, 97% of society is thinking like that, pulling back, not wanting to tell their story. But, the three to five percent of the people that are leveraging this and creating real value, and telling their story in a positive way, and bringing joy to their companies, and then also helping the world as a byproduct, yes, it’s the perfect time to get their positive message out there. The byproduct of that is my company, Q2 was the biggest quarter it ever had. And Q3’s winding up to be even bigger than that.

Again, there’s two kinds of people. Most of the population, most entrepreneurs are cost scarcity, and I don’t work with anyone like that. My brain just can’t even … It’s like me talking to an alien or something. I only work with people with investment abundance mindset, and then those people are one of two types of people. One, they’re running some of the most successful businesses on Earth, and they’re the happiest in their lives with their families. Or two, they’re on their way to being one of those types of people because they have the right mindset. And that’s how my mindset is, it weeds out all the noise, all the nonsense, and focuses only on, for me, the right types of people and businesses.

Good. You know me well enough by now, I’m always trying to bait you. No, I don’t believe in that. I can’t understand why, in a society where we have been physically withdrawn from each other, and banned from connecting with each other … It’s like telling someone, “Oh, there’s 10 biscuits in the fridge, but you can’t have any.” The only thing you’re going to want to eat for the next month of your life is going to be those bloody 10 biscuits. We’re being told we can’t connect with people now, people have never wanted to connect with each other more than now.

Right.

Why is it not now that you’re not sharing your story? Why is it not now that you’re actually out there, giving someone the chance to connect with you? Again, albeit virtually, they can still get a lot of your tone, your body language, your personality, from these kind of virtual meets. Yeah, I’m glad you brought that out.

One of the things that I’ve noticed when I’m coaching clients with their websites or with their message, is they don’t know, recognize, or acknowledge the story they actually had that gets them to where they are. How do you actually get them to expose and unveil their story?

Yeah. In terms of connecting people on a global level, and getting to into news at a high level, there are very few people in the world that are better at it than I am. Those are my natural superpowers. So I could talk to someone for an hour, 55 minutes, they’ll be totally useless to what anyone cares about, but in five minutes I’ll just know what the story is. Again, two to three stories on deadline every day, most of them about quirky people and places, or inspirational kinds of things. It takes a special skillset to be able to do that.

I can’t tell you how many people, thousands of them, said, “Oh, I’ve never actually told that to anyone before.” And that’s what a good journalist can do. That would be like a NASA guy expecting me to know how to run a telescope, I don’t know how to do that. But, in terms of getting people to tell their stories, I just naturally know how to get people to talk. It’s a skillset, it’s a superpower, and I’m glad I have it.

So they’ve, first of all, got to get over … It’s like a catch 22. They want PR, they want publicity, they want notoriety, they want to become an influence, or whatever the question is. If they first don’t acknowledge and start working on their story, then how are they going to get there?

Again, nobody cares about what you do, for the most part, they care about who you are. So if someone doesn’t want to talk about who they are or how they got there, it’s going to be very difficult. Especially in a podcast type setting, to talk to someone for 45 minutes or an hour just about business, to me that sounds exhausting. I guess it can be done, but people want to know where you came from, how you did this.

Usually, for whatever it’s worth, I always ask people what their parents did for a living, or what children they have, or things like where they went to college, and that almost always brings up, “Oh yeah, my mom did this.” I never come prepared with questions, everything’s organic and I just know how to do that. Yeah, asking about family’s a good way to start, or think about your family if you’re trying to do your own story. Yeah, most people they don’t know how to do this, they’re not trained to do it, just like most people aren’t good at 99% of things.

It’s a skill. No, that makes total sense. They’re going to have to work on it, though, because unless they come up with a story, how are they going to get the podcast?

They’re not.

Right. Okay, well that answered that one. I like that.

Okay, we know that podcasts are the place to go, we know they’ve got to be focusing on storytelling. Do you think that’s going to be changing over the next two years? And, do you care?

In terms of what do I think is going to change in the next two years? Repeat that.

Yeah. I’m trying to work out, do you think that we are going to see a change in platform over the next two years that’s going to become more attractive than podcasts. The question, quite bluntly, was do you care that there will be in two years time?

So, I don’t care if there is, and I don’t know if it’s two years or five years, but I absolutely think there will be something that comes up.

I graduated from the University of Illinois in 1999. My first several jobs were at newspapers, where I would go to the top level of the building to watch the press print the paper. That’s why I got into this business. Then, I was the third person hired … This was 2012, I was the third person hired at a news site called DNA Info, which was literally an online only news site where the reporters took their own photos and their own videos. At the time, oh my God, reporters took their own photos and videos, that was walking on the moon. That was about the time, too, that podcasts were starting to come up a little bit. Now, you’re seeing podcasts really starting to take off. And then, something else will come along. That’s called progress.

It’s really interesting. So where we live used to be one giant farm, a very giant farm. So 40, 50 years ago, they built several houses on this land. A lot of my neighbors, not entrepreneurs, not visionaries, which was fine. There’s a new development where they took the last farmhouse down, and they’re putting a development there, and they’re upset about that. I said, “So, you’re upset about that, but you’re not upset about the fact that the house you’re on used to be an exact same farmhouse like that?” That usually stops the argument. That’s why I don’t care, that’s called evolution of technology, of media, of the human species.

Again, the most successful entrepreneurs, now especially, they’re just pivoting and figuring it out. It’s just entrepreneur life. Change is good.

All right. Yeah, that’s good.

A friend of mine, Joe Polish, always says, “Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.” You can guarantee that whatever you put value and stock in today won’t be what it is in two years time. It’ll either evolve into something brilliant, or it would have rolled over and died like a dodo.

You can guarantee that whatever you put value and stock in today won't be what it is in two years time. Click To Tweet

Right.

You’ve got to be prepared and ready to adapt.

Right. Let me dovetail that with what will be important two years from now.

Oh, do it.

Relationships, those will always be important. So that’s why my life is building my network on a global level.

So as you said, people came back to you five years after hearing of podcasts that, at the time you did it, maybe 10 people were listening to it. Then, someone famous did it, and then all these people are listening to it. So the seeds that I’ve planted now, or in the last couple months, they’ll bear fruit in five, 10 years from now. When you build real relationships with people, those are the people that will want to do business with you, because you actually care about them. That’s the thing that is the foundation, that will never not be valuable is having real relationships with people.

To give it a very clear example of that, I did a podcast and he was a college lecturer. I did his podcast. I think it was college or university, one of those that I never went to. He did this podcast on me, and then he killed it. He literally went, “Oh, I’ve only done a few.” I think he’d done 20 or 30, I can’t remember exactly how many episodes he did. He goes, “Ah, I can’t be bothered to do it,” and he killed it. I was like, “Oh okay, fair enough.”

And then, his daughter took up and she was 15 years old. She was like, “Hey, would you like to be a guest?” I’m like, “Sure,” based on my two parameters before. I went, “Yeah, I’ll do it.” So I did her podcast, and then she ended up getting someone massive, like the Secretary of Defense or something like that. All of a sudden, I was getting so many people contact me because, again, when they subscribe to your podcast … I’m going to repeat this, because people need to get it in their heads.

When you subscribe to somebody’s podcast, you get all the other episodes actually come in. So you’ve got to be prepared, it’s an evergreen process. When you’re in a newspaper, it’s gone. The following day, it’s wrapping up your fish and chips. But if you’re online, it’s always going to be there. And if it’s a podcast, it’s evergreen. Great for pushing that on the podcasts.

Do you do that a lot with your clients, focus on the podcast stuff?

Such a good question, because that’s been the number one thing that I’ve seen change. You talk about evolving or pivoting, since I started this company three and a half years ago, is that my clients are on more podcasts now than ever.

Typically, what happens is a host will first want to interview me to talk about my weird whackadoo brain, and then I do a good job. They’re like, “Who is this guy? Oh my God.” Then they’re like, “Oh, he’s got all these clients that are just like that?” And then, they want to interview them, too. That’s great for my business and my brand, and then it’s great for my clients, and it’s great for the host, too, because I have a gian social media following, and I share the hell out of these interviews. It’s good for everybody, and it creates endless synergies.

And then, I do other podcasts and then I introduce other podcast hosts to each other because they’ll do each other’s podcasts. And then, their networks will be … Again, it’s all collaboration, it’s all genuinely helping people.

But yes, I have seen the power of getting my clients to do as many podcasts as possible, and several of them are direct results of me personally doing the podcast. Which I 100% never expect, but I’m gladly doing it because I like talking about how I’ve built this business in life. And then, I like helping my clients get on the same types of shows.

Now, you said you’ve got a great social following. What are those social followings? Where can they find you on Instagram?

I have more than 16 followers. That’s an inside joke. I don’t have 60,000. I’m on Instagram, but the big one for me is LinkedIn, I have about 22,000 followers there. I basically use it as a commercial for other people, meaning if I have a client who was in the Chicago Tribune or on a podcast, I’ll post the link and then tag my client, and then tag the host or reporter as well. Or, if I have a client do a cool thing … I just ordered one of my client’s books, so I posted that book and tagged her.

So there’s two types of people that follow me on LinkedIn. One, a visionary, or whackadoo geniuses who potentially I might hire at my firm. And then, the other are journalists. Here’s the really weird thing that happened. Let’s say I post an article in the Chicago Tribune about one of my clients. So you’d think, and five years ago maybe, that would have stopped them from doing stories on it. But there’s so much demand for these type of inspirational, really good stories that they don’t care that someone else did the story. I’ll post that, and then other media will reach out to me saying, “Hey, we’d like to interview your client as well,” which I’d never thought would happen. Because when I was a journalist, I would only doing things if they were exclusive, and that is not the case now, at all.

All right, that’s good. And you’re Breen, B-R-E-E-N. If you’re looking him up on LinkedIn, stalking him, Justin Breen, B-R-E-E-N, self declared whackadoo. I can vouch for that.

Thank you.

We’ve spoken about the different platforms, and you brought up LinkedIn. I’d like to close out with this. There’s a lot of social platforms out there, and we’ve obviously been bombarded now with TikTok. And now, we’re coming out with Reels, which is Instagram’s version of TikTok. You said you prefer to focus on LinkedIn. Is there any platform that you would say, again, this is a baited question, that people should focus on?

No. It depends on what … A restaurant on something, or someone in fashion, I think Instagram or TikTok would be better. For me, personally, LinkedIn is better because it’s more business focused, and I can post articles on it. And then, Facebook as well. But, Twitter, media spends most of their day on Twitter, journalists do. Not necessarily podcast hosts, but media is always looking for stories on Twitter.

To directly answer your question, no. When I started this business, I might have had 2000 followers on LinkedIn, now I have 22,000, because I saw the results of posting these articles on there, and the types of people that were on LinkedIn, so I just kept doubling down on that. Again, it’s trial and error, seeing what works for you. If it does work for you, keep doubling down on it.

So quick and final question, do you change the article at all that you post on LinkedIn, to the article that you post on Facebook?

I make it slightly more professional on LinkedIn.

I was doing a webinar with some very high level entrepreneurs around the world, … And I’m looking in the distance now because I’m thinking my sons are going to start fighting. They’re not. So I mentioned that because, in this video, my sons were actually attacking each other with a real hammer in the video, and it was pretty funny. No one got hurt. Anyway, I did a screen grab of my little guy holding a hammer, about to attack the seven year old. So I made a funnier joke on Facebook with that screen grab with a link to the video, but kept it a little more serious on LinkedIn, while also showcasing that screen grab of the …

Can I tell the best social media story that’s ever happened to me, since I started my company?

Go for it.

So I love McDonald’s … this is in my book, by the way. I love McDonald’s, and one day they took … I like the two cheeseburger extra value meal. One day I went there, and it wasn’t on the menu. I go, “What’s going on here?” I tweeted to McDonald’s a very nasty, negative tweet. Not really mean, but it was funny.

So I forgot about it, and six months later McDonald’s sent me a tweet and tagged me saying, “Hey, we heard your complaint. Hey, we put the extra value meal back on the menu.” I screen grabbed that tweet, and posted all over my social media, people went nuts. McDonald’s actually sent me a little gift card, too. So then people saw it, and then one of my Facebook friends saw it and said, “Hey, my client wants to work with you,” and that led to a five-figure contract because of that.

Because of McDonald’s?

Because of McDonald’s.

That is incredible.

Yeah, that’s what I mean. Again, I think that’s very similar to what you talked about with your podcast story, when it was an unknown podcast, it’s the same thing.

It blows up.

What is the book? You mentioned a book. What is it?

Yeah, it’s called Epic Business. It’s really changed people’s lives, it’s basically 30 things I’ve learned from some of the top entrepreneurs in the world in my company’s first 30 months. I posted that list to my social media following. At the time, that was about 37,000 followers. Everybody’s like, “You have to write a book on this,” so I wrote a book on it. Each one of those lessons is a chapter. Then, Chris Voss who wrote Never Split the Difference, did the forward. Any high level visionary who’s serious about anything has read that book, or at least knows of it.

It’s an international bestseller in six countries, and number for entrepreneurship in the US. It explains how my weird brain works, and how this company is a global business that only works with the best people on the planet.

All right. That can be found in the usually Amazon, and Barnes and Nobel, and all the usually suspects, yeah?

Even Target, and hopefully soon Walmart.

There you go. So if you’re kicking through Walmart, you’ve got to go and find his book.

All right Justin, you’ve been a superstar. I really appreciate the fact that you did this for a second time, you dropped as much gold as you did the first time. You’re actually coming on one of our live AMAs, aren’t you? On our expert AMA within the Speakeasy group soon.

October 6th, I believe. Honestly, I hope the volume crashes again, so we do this again. I actually want to keep doing it, like the guy who keeps pushing the rock up the hill and it falls down.

There you go. It’s going to be Groundhog Day, featuring me and you.

It would be kind of funny if we did keep doing it.

Well, we may even get good at it. What do you think? Two weirdos just not really giving a shit.

 Super successful, very weird people who are enjoying their lives.

Well look, I appreciate you, I’m looking forward to seeing you again on the AMA and in person. So Justin, thank you very much for coming on the show.

Thank you, and I can’t wait for you to come to my book launch party. It’s just a total train wreck, like the video for your book launch party.

It will be, once I’m there. I look forward to being there. All right Justin, I’ll see you there. Thank you.

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